Poetry as Radical Resistance | Ghost Town Poetry -📍 Vancouver, WA

For over 20 years, Ghost Town Poetry Open Mic has offered a platform for poets and poetry lovers to explore and navigate the world together. Listen in as cohosts and poets Christopher Luna and Morgan Paige talk about how leaving our houses and hearing words out loud can connect and inspire us all. This episode is part of our celebration of National Poetry Month!

🗺️ Visit them:

• In person every second Thursday!
• printedmattervancouver.com 
• christopherlunapoetry.com
• @christopherjluna 
• @ghosttownopenmic 
• @morganpaigepoetry

👀 For pictures, video, and more, visit the episode page.

🎉 This episode also celebrates:

• Niche Wine Bar
• Paper Tiger Coffee Roasters
• Vault 31 & Don’t Die Cafe
• Eras Vintage Marketplace

⭐️ Thank you to this episode's sponsor: OpenSeat

Transcript

[00:00:00] Adriana: Welcome to National Poetry Month. Every year in April, we gather to celebrate the spoken and written word. Since its founding in 1996, National Poetry Month has actually grown to be the largest literary celebration in the world. Right here in Clark County, there's a group that gathers to celebrate the written word every single month, and they are considered by many to be the heart center of poetry in our region.

This is Ghost Town Poetry Open Mic, which was founded in 2004 by Christopher Luna, one of our guests today. Christopher was Clark County's inaugural Poet Laureate, and he's considered by some to be our local Godfather of Poetry. In fact, that's the title that our other guest today, Morgan Paige, another wonderful poet and writer, gave to Christopher when her son was born.

Christopher is her son's Godfather of Poetry. Godmother of Poetry? The other Ghost Town co-host, Toni Lumbrazo Luna. These wonderful poets host an open mic every single month at Art at the Cave Gallery. On the second Tuesday at 7:00 PM, you can read your own poem, a song you wrote, a tribute, or just sit and listen to the words of the people in our community.

There's always a featured guest, and this month, that featured guest is Derek Sheffield, who's the current Poet Laureate of Washington State. Ghost Town at its core is really about the community. Being a space for people to just be, be together, be themselves, be artists. You know, when you think about open mic nights, you might be thinking of the sort of stereotypical dark coffee shop.

Everyone's wearing black, they're going, hmm hmm and snapping a lot. And then there's the poet. They're up on stage with a kind of tattered old microphone, like definitely a beret, reading a very pretentious piece of work out of a tiny black notebook. Yeah, Ghost Town isn't anything like that. The Art at the Cave is a beautiful, bright gallery space on Evergreen in Vancouver.

There are lots of joyful people. Sure, there's some snapping, but it's a gathering space for people to just be together surrounded by art and listening to art, and it's extremely welcoming. I joked that I probably spoke less in this interview than any other I've done. I was so taken with the way that Christopher and Morgan speak about their own work and of the world, so I'm gonna let them take it from here.

Welcome to I’m Into This Place, your deep dive into the local arts, culture, and heritage of Clark County. From fabulous new restaurants to quirky art installations to the historical sites you never even knew to look for, we’re inviting you along. Whether you're a Clark County connoisseur or just starting to get to know her, get ready to fall head over heels for this place we call home. I'm your host, Adriana Baer, and I'm into this place. Let's go.

Christopher, Morgan, thank you so much for welcoming me into your world. I'm so excited to talk to you guys both today about poetry, poetry in Clark County, the writer's community, all of it. 

[00:03:24] Christopher: Thank you for having us. 

[00:03:25] Adriana: So let's start with both of you as writers, as poets. What's the generative seed for you in your work?

[00:03:35] Morgan: I am actually a fortunate human being to know what my path was at a very young age.I knew that I was a poet because I wrote this poem from my grandmother and I was so proud of myself because I wrote about this angel and the wings were white and I was explaining all of this for her. She is an immigrant from Germany.

So she wrote poetry in both German and English. I always wanted to emulate her as a kid, and I didn't know how important poetry would become to my life, but I just knew that was part of my path. And there's such a cool memory that comes to mind. When I was in high school and I was in a creative writing class, we all were, we went to the library at some point to perform the poems that we had written in the class.

And this was such a big deal. I was a very shy person. I did not want to perform. I hated giving presentations. It was horrible. But when we went - and we, we invited our family to come to this reading and it was a whole thing - when we went, I remember reading the poem that I had then written for my mother.

My roses grow with an amethyst tint, reflections of my mother's eyes. Very Emily Dickinson-esque. Everyone had performed their pieces and, and it was very, you know, everyone was shy and shaky. And I got up there and for some reason, my voice carried throughout the whole building and out of the building to the point where everyone came up to me after, and I'm 15, maybe 16, and congratulated me.

And at that point I knew. I was like, whoa. Wow, I am onto something, and something just happened. That was a spark in my life. And so I knew that this spark of aliveness, I didn't know what it was, but I wanted more of that. And then flash forward, I kind of went into hiding with my work. And then it was when I met Chris and he handed me this flyer for Ghost Town Poetry, I knew that that was a turning point. It was a pivotal turning point in my life, in my poet poetic life because I knew it was time to share again. 

[00:05:36] Adriana: I got chills when you were talking about your voice resonating in the library and people seeing you and you feeling strong and centered and powerful in your words.

I wanna hear from you, Chris, for you, what was that spark of writing. 

[00:05:55] Christopher: So I knew I was a writer at 11. When I was 11, I was reading a lot of Stephen King and a lot of John Irving. They were the two authors who made me wanna be a writer. And so I guess my writing at that time was, you know, like short fiction that was sort of imitations of Twilight Zone and horror movie type stuff. 

And then when I was in my twenties, I read Alan Ginsburg's Collected Poems, and Walt Whitman’s Leaves of Grass. I realize now, I can realize now, that that determined the course of the rest of my life. It's like I was grabbed by the lapels by poetry and pulled into the future.

So I ended up going to the school that Ginsburg started in ‘74 with Diane di Prima and Anne Waldman. It's called the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetic.s Ginsburg was still alive when I first visited it. There was a week long tribute to him. And I met a person there who is sort of a protege of Ginsburg's.

His name was Antler. At the end of that weeklong tribute to Ginsburg, he gave me a hug and he said, make poetry your life. And I don't know if anyone has ever said anything like that to you, but I kind of took it as a command and then that's what happened. But the thing about Ginsburg is that I do love the work, but it was also important who he was as a person.

Because Ginsburg supported lots of other poets. And because he became a world famous poet in his twenties, he could have just like, sort of sat on that and kept all that attention and, and the money that came from it to himself. But he spread it around and he, and he used it to help other people. There's a story about him taking a satchel of his work and other people's work into New York publishers and basically saying, “This is who you should be publishing.”

So I'm trying to sort of carry on that spirit of what Ginsburg did as an individual to be  that person that can just sort of support poetry wherever I find it and support other poets wherever I find them. And, and it's not, it doesn't even have to be my cup of tea. I just, I believe so much. I'm so passionate about poetry that I want to help other poets.

And then in terms of the personal work, I do a kind of observational kind of poetry based on the ideas that Ed Sanders had about investigative poetry, which is basically using the skills of a historian or a journalist to do narrative poems. So I've done some of that. I did that to engage with Vancouver when it was new to me and strange, and I called those the Ghost Town poems.

10 years of working on those. I like to do surreal poems, although you can't force those. You have to do them when they're ready to come. And I do these, I like prose poetry very much. And will write original prose poems and also do what I call collage poems. But thinking about “where does like poetry come from,” teaching it, one of the things I got from that is people that are not writers think that novelists and poets get fully formed works that are in their head, and then they just sort of dump them onto the paper. But it turns out that poetry is an exploratory process. 

Like we, we write to find out what's inside. We write to understand the world around us. And in terms of the craziness that's going on in the world right now and which has always been going on, I think a lot about this and talk to my students about this, there are people out there who are feeling as angry and as upset and as confused as we are, who don't have the same facility with the language that a writer has.

So you're performing a public service by getting those feelings down on paper or reading them at a public poetry reading because there will be people in that audience and also people in the community around you who would like to say those things, but don't have the means to say it. So I really feel like that's an important role for poets.

To bear witness and then to speak to the things that everybody is thinking about, upset about, concerned about, but in a public way. Something about that is really important for the populace, for the citizenry because there are some people who need to change their mind about things, or to see things more clearly, which is one thing poetry helps you do, before they will feel ready to take to the streets or whatever it is that they're gonna do to make the world a better place. 

And I see that happen every month at Ghost Town. Everybody needs to be heard and seen, but there's also things that people need to hear, right? So it's almost like a, it's like a healing feedback loop. It's a great thing about the open mic format.

We don't know what people are gonna say before they show up what poems they're gonna read. The Last Ghost Town Poetry was the, the day after Renée Good was murdered by ICE.  And so half a dozen of the poems were about that. And because it turned out that this particular time that ICE murdered somebody, that it was a poet, someone read her poem, the poem that won an award.

So people wrote about her and also shared her words. And I feel like we're fortunate to have a place where people feel safe to do that, and where when something that serious has just happened that we have a way to address it publicly and maybe even think about could we do anything to help? And, and it will help you to have gotten out of the house and to be reminded that I'm not the only person on the planet who's feeling this way right now.

And then we're a long event. So that was just a few of the things that were read. That's what's wonderful about the open mic format, is it's all over the map in terms of content. And it wouldn't be good if it was three hours of poems about a tragedy, right? 

[00:11:18] Morgan: Poetry leads to connection. It's a radical form of resistance when we're sitting, getting to know our own feelings about something and getting to know where we stand on something and then we share it, our personal experience becomes universal because we look at each other in the eyes and we say, look, we have the same needs. We need to connect. And so if poetry can be that bridge of connection of helping people not feel alone in this world, like, oh my gosh, there's so many times during the open mic that so many people are moved to tears because they don't feel alone anymore.

[00:11:51] Christopher: There's a bunch of things on the, on the flyer to let people know that it's a safe space. One of them is LGBTQ+ friendly. I put that on there 'cause I want people in those communities to know that it's safe for them. But I wouldn't put it on there if I didn't think that it was true. And this is what the Vancouver community has done for 20-something-plus years.

Because we've had trans and queer readers and features the whole time. And I paid close attention to how those people were treated while they were in the room. And I've never even heard a person say an unkind word about a trans person out out of earshot. 

[00:12:28] Adriana: I love that list. I'm gonna read it. It's anti-fascist, anti-racist, LGBTQ+ friendly, pro-science, pro-choice, all ages and uncensored since 2004. I love it. 

[00:12:41] Christopher: Well, and before we had Ghost Town, there was no title for the series. 

[00:12:44] Adriana: Why Ghost Town? 

[00:12:45] Christopher: Because I'm from New York. 24 hours a day there are people everywhere. And so when I got to Vancouver. It freaked me out that I could walk around the street in the middle of the day and not see any people.

It started out as a sarcastic nickname, like a New Yorker being a jerk and saying, this place is a ghost town. But then it became a badge of honor where Vancouverites know that there's this bigger, cooler, hipper city right across the river. We also know that some of the people there have some weird ideas about Vancouver and look down on it.

And so Ghost Town poetry is a way of saying, “We don't need your validation. And there's a lot of great art stuff happening over here.” 

I guess those Ghost Town poems, I mean, I was sort of like doing fish out of water, you know, New Yorker in Vancouver trying to understand this place. But what they mostly were, because when I was first in Ghost Town and I didn't have a car, I was taking the bus and I was also pushing my son around in his stroller and people would see us doing that, was engaging with this new place and engaging with what was outdoors and writing direct observational poetry about it. 

One of my obsessions right now is how I feel like all writing is time travel, but there's also a kind of writing where you [00:14:00] write in real time about things that are happening in front of you as they happen.

And that's kind of what the Ghost town poems are. And in most cases, I am walking around the community and writing about what I see as I'm walking around. 

[00:14:13] Adriana: A special thanks to our sponsor, Open Seat.

Open Seat is an all-in-one mobile ticketing platform made specially for local event organizers. Whether you are selling 10 tickets to a writing workshop or 200 tickets to a local concert, Open Seat makes it easy. And if your event is free, Open Seat is free too. And it's super easy to use. Believe me, I've tried it.

If you want a frictionless way for your audience to show up when and where you want them to., this is it. Tell them you found Open Seat on  I'm Into This Place and you can set up 10 events with zero platform fees. Find them at openseat.cc or through the link in the [00:15:00] show notes.

I’d like to circle back briefly to what you started with, Morgan, which was this idea of speaking the poetry out loud. Because there's something extremely different about writing poetry to be silently read by somebody and writing poetry to be read aloud, either by you or by somebody else. When we talk about, you know, sharing these words in community, you are speaking about sharing these words out loud from your mouth, your body, into this space. Can you talk about that a little bit?

[00:15:40] Morgan: Absolutely. I mean, for me, and I've thought about this a lot because I've been getting into a lot of energetics, metaphysics, frequency, and, how things resonate, why they resonate.

What is resonant about, you know, connection of one person to another, and what's dissonant. There's [00:16:00] something so rhythmic about speaking poetry aloud, whether it's rhyming or not, and there's something that's very musical in that. But I think there's something that that does as we receive it to our energetic field.

And also as we're vibrating out, you know, it's a reciprocity, an energetic reciprocity that's happening that is healing us in the moment. Whether we know we're being healed or not, it's healing if we're open to receiving. And when you're in a room with a microphone and somebody is, you know, vibrationally, rhythmically speaking, you are receiving.

And so I think that's why people show up - because it resonates, because there's this frequency that's matched and there's this reciprocity. And I think that that is strengthening the human web of connection, you know, and it gives me great hope and inspiration to experience that in real time.

It really allows us to connect as humans. And I think like in a greater, [00:17:00] bigger picture sense, poetry connects us with our humanity. What is important for us as humans is to, to feel. We, we must keep feeling. And so anything that helps remind us of how to feel and the fact that we are feeling humans, yes, write it, but then when you share it, I'm feeling something different when I share it and I know that I'm receiving what that feeling was on the page in a different way as well.

So it's like yeah, it connects us to our humanity. 

[00:17:28] Christopher: This is why I hang out with her. 

[00:17:30] Adriana: I mean, for real. 

[00:17:32] Christopher: I'd like to piggyback on that. I feel like performance is very important to me. When I can, I read with musicians, that's my favorite way to present it. But even when you're up there by yourself.

You know, poetry is an oral tradition and there's two ways to sort of experience it. You're either reading it to yourself, and I encourage my students to read the poems they're reading for fun and their own writing out loud because of this oral tradition, but often we're just doing it [00:18:00] silently, or in the air.

And so if you read it out loud, that's the other place that poetry happens. And as a performer, even if you haven't been doing it for very long, it's a full body experience. You will feel things in your entire body, and I think that you can learn over time to tune into what else is happening in the room without losing your place in the poem.

And this is regardless of whether you memorize or not. I'm not somebody who memorizes my poetry, even though performance is very important. I always have some kind of text to work from. If you could tune into what's happening in the audience, there are all kinds of things energetically that you can pick up.

And one of the things that you learn over time is how to tell whether you have them or not. I really feel like art is a one-to-one ratio. Like I feel like my job is to reach one of those people out there no matter how many there are, and it's sort of like all the rest of them are gravy, right? If you get more than one, then you're really cooking with gas. 

Right now, the world is suffering from people, feeling isolated from each other. This technology that's supposed to [00:19:00] bring us together - all the data tells us that it's not helping with that. It's actually making things worse. So it's important for people, whether they go to poetry readings or whether they do other things that make them happy, things that they enjoy, to leave your house and go outside and go and be among other humans. 

You will find almost immediately when you gather with other humans that they are more pleasant, more interesting, and more complex than anything that's on your telephone. Right? And so that's super important to do right now. And we're living in a dangerous time.

And so I think making contact with real humans is one of the things that will help to save us from this danger and get us out of this danger. I also think for writers, sometimes I say to the writers in my workshops, go outside and take a walk to the end of your block or to the end of your driveway. The poem might be waiting for you there. 

This is a, a time in our history where it's really important to go [00:20:00] outside, whatever that means for you or to you, that is helping people right now. I'd say if you're feeling sad and lonely and alone, come to Ghost Town. Or just go outside and you'll start to feel things open up for you.

[00:20:14] Adriana: Okay. As we move to our closing moments, Christopher and Morgan, I always ask for you to pay it forward, share the love by shouting out another organization or person that you're really into these days. Before we do that, I will remind all of our listeners that if you're not already signed up for our newsletter, it's super easy.

You can do that through the link in the show notes or in the footer of our website. And that is the very best way to get special ticket offers, to learn about upcoming events, and to see photos and videos of our podcast guests. And when you sign up for our newsletter, which is free and comes once a week, I write it myself, you help us grow and gain [00:21:00] supporters who can help us continue to put out this free arts and culture content. So make sure to check that out. 

All right. Who are you really into these days? 

[00:21:10] Christopher: I'm really into Niche Wine Bar, which is owned by Leah Jackson, who is the person who's been supporting my art and this arts community for a very long time.

It's a place where you can see art, gather with community. There are books to read, there is a book club, there are writing workshops. There are all kinds of things going on there all the time. And Leah Jackson is one of the people that made that downtown Vancouver Arts District what it is. So, Niche Wine Bar is what I'd like to recommend.

[00:21:37] Morgan: Also, second that, but I would also say Paper Tiger Coffee Roasters. Excellent coffee, excellent art. They've been showing art in this area for many, many years. Even with the change of ownership, you gotta check it out. 

[00:21:50] Adriana: This was a really moving and meaningful conversation and I just really appreciate you both so much sharing your voices with me and also with our [00:22:00] community.

I have loved being in the room at Ghost Town. I look forward to being in the room again, and I know that you are both rocks for this community, for this literary community, and I can't wait to just hear more words. Thank you both so much. 

[00:22:18] Morgan: Thank you. Thank you for having us. 

[00:22:21] Adriana: And now let's hear from you. This is our Community Voices segment, where you call in to shout out your favorites in local arts, culture, and heritage. Community Voices is sponsored by Johnson Bixby, Vancouver's woman-owned, women-led financial planning and portfolio management firm helping you plan for and celebrate life's possibilities. Advisory Services by Johnson Bixby, SEC, registered. Securities through private client services member Finra, SIPC. 

Guest: Hey there, uh, my name is Stephanie and I just gotta say I love Vault [00:23:00] 31, the video game bar. It's one of my favorite places to go. They have all sorts of games, new and old.

They have PC games. They have console games. They’ve got everything under the sun. Their food is fantastic. They do super awesome cocktails and specials. And they also have a sister cafe called Don't Die Cafe. So, go check them out. Vault 31. It's a great place to be. 

[00:23:29] Guest: Hi, this is Maryanne with Dandelion Tea House in Apothecary, and I give a shout out to all the vintage shops, especially our next door neighbor Eras. It's just so fun shopping the past and finding those little treasures that make our homes and our lives so great. 

[00:23:52] Adriana: We'd love to hear from you. What are your favorite spots in Clark County? Who really deserves a shout out? Give us a call and leave a [00:24:00] message or send us a voice note via email. All the details on how to do that are in the show notes. 

I’m Into This Place is produced and edited by me, Adriana Baer. Engineering, and mixing by Shawn Lee Martin. This episode was recorded at the home of Christopher Luna, founder of Printed Matter Vancouver and the Ghost Town Poetry Open Mic. Find out more about us and them at imintothisplace.com.

See you out there.